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Sludged engine 2018 Pathfinder**** Please comment if you have experienced this w/ 2017-2021 **** Building a case to bring to the MN Attorney General

2486 Views 53 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  IH8SPM
Grab a cup of coffee, this is going to be a longish read, but if you have had engine sludge please read to the end :)

I am like many others that have experienced issues with engine sludge. I own a 2018 Platinum edition that I bought new directly for the dealer. Last march, around 58K miles, and less than 1 month after I had my car in for my 60K maintenance and oil change, my car started to blow whitish/blue smoke upon start up. It wasn't consistently doing it at first, but after about 4 starts like that I called the Nissan Service department to explain what was happening and my concern. I know nothing about cars and I trusted Nissan with the maintenance and service of my vehicle because they are the pros and I planned to drive that car for as long as I could. The person I spoke with said the 2018 PF is known for condensation in the tailpipe and it can produce what looks like smoke on start up. I told him it smelled a bit like a 2 cycle engine which had me concerned about burning oil. He asked if I had a check engine light on and I said no. He then told me it would be a waste of time and money to bring my car in because there was no codes to run. I called again 2 weeks later because the smoke upon start up was becoming more frequent. I was given the same line about condensation in the tailpipe. Still no check engine light illuminated. Same story, no light- no diagnostics. I continued to experience the smoke on a more frequent basis, but still intermittent basis. It did seem to be worse on days with higher humidity so while I was still very uncomfortable with the answer, I went with it. I know how stupid that is now. Fast forward to July 2022,and just a couple thousand miles later, while driving the check engine turns on along with the low oil pressure light. I immediately pulled over to a gas station. I tried to get the cap off so I could add a quart or 2 of oil, but couldn't. I started the car back up to drive the 15 miles home and the low oil pressure light was off, but check engine was still illuminated. I immediately called Nissan and brought my car in even though they didn't have time to service it. I knew I had a problem.

Long story short, they said due to lack of maintenance I needed an engine replacement due to sludge build up. Of course, Nissan USA declined to cover me while under warranty citing lack of maintenance as the cause of the engine sludge. I pushed back and said I had called multiple times with concern only to be brushed off by the maintenance department. I had my oil changed about every 7500 miles at the dealership. Never once did my paperwork indicate low levels of oil or excessively dirty oil upon arrival. We did one home oil change in 2021 because we were taking a road trip and the dealership couldn't get us in before we left. Other than that, the dealer did oil changes and ALL scheduled mileage maintenance. The service manager argued that by the time I was seeing the smoke, the damage to the engine was already done due to lack of proper maintenance, and despite their service department dismissing my calls with concerns, they had no culpability. I argued that if it was a long outstanding issue the excessively dark oil should have been noted on my service notes and that my service records actually prove that I was trying to properly maintain my car by doing all scheduled maintenance. I tried to fight it with Nissan USA and they said their decision had already been rendered based on information the dealer had already submitted. The records they submitted had a gap because of the oil change we did at home because I didn't have the receipt (from July 2021, which I eventually tracked down). I told the Nissan USA warranty rep that they had incomplete information and I could now submit the receipt. She said it didn't matter because a decision had already been rendered.

I acknowledge that I went longer than the maintenance schedule indicates, but I also don't think this damage should have occurred at the interval schedule I was on. I also think that if Nissan knew this to be an issue, which I think they do, they should have recommended more frequent oil changes on my service notes.
Luckily, I made a few FB videos about the problem I had when the smoke first started and asked for opinions so I do have proof that I was concerned and I cited in the video that the dealership blew me off. I plan to take this up with the attorney general in MN to see if I can fight it and even if I don't win, I hope to make it VERY uncomfortable for that Nissan service department manager. This is where you come in. Please comment if you have had the same issues. I have read so many posts on this forum about people with the 2017-2021 models experiencing this exact same issue. I think this will go a long way toward forcing Nissan's hand to replace my engine and if there are enough documented problems, it may force Nissan to start fixing the issue on a broader scale. I think they know they have a problem, and are using the 5K hard stopping point of oil changes as a technicality to void the powertrain warranty because the issue is so widespread and it would be a huge loss to either the dealerships or Nissan USA to actually fix on a broad scale.

If you are still reading this, you have probably experienced this same issue with your pathfinder and I am so sorry for that. Please take the time to comment the following:
Pathfinder year, make, model
If you bought it new or used
Your real name( if comfortable doing that)
Where you bought your Pathfinder
Whether you brought the issue up with dealership and the outcome.

An engine replacement or purchasing a new car is an expense that many cannot afford. The dealership and service departments are very quick to take our money and in doing so, they should be accountable to do the RIGHT thing. In doing so, they might cement a customer for life. The condescending dismissal of the issue I was having and the lack of accountability have ensured I will never buy another Nissan (we bought 2 new from the same dealer and would have bought a 3rd) and have fueled my desire to hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the novel.

Sincerely,
DupedbyNissan- Roseville, MN
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Sorry to hear about your issue and I agree that although you went past what Nissan recommended, 7.5k miles on fully synthetic oil should never cause this issue. I've always done mine at the 6k mile mark but mine's a different engine.
There is definitely something wrong in this engine design and my opinion is that Nissan is (once again as they did with the CVT's), ignoring it.
If you want to invite specific members to participate in your thread, type "@" followed by their username, like this:
@DupedbyNissan
I feel that this engine with the Direct Injection pump driven off the front bank exhaust cam is partially to blame for the problem BUT only if the engine is using something other than API certified & high quality 0W20 synthetic oil. The DI pump places a bigger stress on the engine oil, and the VQ35XX engine has always been guilty of shearing the oil quickly due to the type of chains and sprockets used in the timing system. VW had problems with their DI pumps driven off the cam that were made far worse when owners didn't use the VW specified synthetic oil ~ it wasn't something you could find easily at Walmart.

I don't exceed 6500 kilometres per oil change and use only Pennzoil Platinum 0W20 with a Mahle OC575 filter but I doubt the oil filter quality is of any influence to the sludge situation. Use full synthetic 0W20 and change often might be the answer?
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Use the motor oil specified in the owner's manual and quality filters, I was using Wix but now I found Nissan filters on Amazon for a fair price. Keep the intervals to <5000 miles. I do my own, draining the oil overnight after work following a 45-minute run home on the freeway. An overnight hot drain maximizes the amount of sludge drained out - IMHO. [And use a new crush washer torquing the plug to 25 ft-lbs].
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2018 Platinum, 68,000 miles. Have an extended warranty. All service has been done by Nissan dealers using their recommended service intervals and fluids. No oil related issues but low speed pinging is an ongoing problem. Dealer recommended fuel additives.
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2018 Platinum, 68,000 miles. Have an extended warranty. All service has been done by Nissan dealers using their recommended service intervals and fluids. No oil related issues but low speed pinging is an ongoing problem. Dealer recommended fuel additives.
Run premium fuel.
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Run premium fuel.
I’ve done that. No change.
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@DupedbyNissan

I haven't had this problem with my 2019, but I have been compiling cases of it and data on it in various threads on this forum since 2019. The concern has made no positive headway with Nissan.

Reading the symptoms many of the effected folks described, I suspected a PCV system problem with these particular engines all along.

If you dug deep enough at this point, you should have seen a suspected cause of this problem isn't necessarily on lack of oil changes it's a collapsed PCV valve hose. A Nissan shop who has changed many of these engines for this problem discovered this and posted pics of the suspect hose.

If you feel around the back of the engine, rear valve cover, left side, you will feel where the PCV valve threads into the valve cover. A short section of curved hose runs from the PCV valve to a stub on the plastic upper intake manifold. If the hose feels soft, collapsed or deformed in any way, this is your problem.

Regardless of this potential cause, I've been doing my own oil changes on my 2019 every 3500 miles since I bought it used as an ex-rental in 2019 w/ 25K miles on it. It only had one oil change listed on the carfax at 12K miles when I bought it used. We currently have just shy of 90K miles on it.
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Use the motor oil specified in the owner's manual and quality filters, I was using Wix but now I found Nissan filters on Amazon for a fair price. Keep the intervals to <5000 miles. I do my own, draining the oil overnight after work following a 45-minute run home on the freeway. An overnight hot drain maximizes the amount of sludge drained out - IMHO. [And use a new crush washer torquing the plug to 25 ft-lbs].
Thanks for your thoughts. All but one of my oil changes were performed at the dealership as was all my mileage maintenance service.
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I feel that this engine with the Direct Injection pump driven off the front bank exhaust cam is partially to blame for the problem BUT only if the engine is using something other than API certified & high quality 0W20 synthetic oil. The DI pump places a bigger stress on the engine oil, and the VQ35XX engine has always been guilty of shearing the oil quickly due to the type of chains and sprockets used in the timing system. VW had problems with their DI pumps driven off the cam that were made far worse when owners didn't use the VW specified synthetic oil ~ it wasn't something you could find easily at Walmart.

I don't exceed 6500 kilometres per oil change and use only Pennzoil Platinum 0W20 with a Mahle OC575 filter but I doubt the oil filter quality is of any influence to the sludge situation. Use full synthetic 0W20 and change often might be the answer?
Thanks for your thoughts! I do use full synthetic OW20. My gripe is that the dealer did almost all oil changes and maintenance and never once did any of my paperwork indicated excessively dirty or low oil upon arrival. My thought is that the sludge develops over time and the indicators were likely present when in for service. I also called the service department on 2 separate occasions as soon I noticed an issue and I was told if no check engine light is on there is nothing to diagnose. I go to the dealer for service and oil changes because they know these vehicles and their issues inside and out and I trusted them to inform me of any red flags they were seeing.
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@DupedbyNissan

I haven't had this problem with my 2019, but I have been compiling cases of it and data on it in various threads on this forum since 2019. The concern has made no positive headway with Nissan.

Reading the symptoms many of the effected folks described, I suspected a PCV system problem with these particular engines all along.

If you dug deep enough at this point, you should have seen a suspected cause of this problem isn't necessarily on lack of oil changes it's a collapsed PCV valve hose. A Nissan shop who has changed many of these engines for this problem discovered this and posted pics of the suspect hose.

If you feel around the back of the engine, rear valve cover, left side, you will feel where the PCV valve threads into the valve cover. A short section of curved hose runs from the PCV valve to a stub on the plastic upper intake manifold. If the hose feels soft, collapsed or deformed in any way, this is your problem.

Regardless of this potential cause, I've been doing my own oil changes on my 2019 every 3500 miles since I bought it used as an ex-rental in 2019 w/ 25K miles on it. It only had one oil change listed on the carfax at 12K miles when I bought it used. We currently have just shy of 90K miles on it.
Thanks for your response. I just recently read about the PCV hose issue. I know nothing about cars or engines so I’m having a trusted mechanic check it when I go in for my oil change on Mo day.
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@DupedbyNissan

I haven't had this problem with my 2019, but I have been compiling cases of it and data on it in various threads on this forum since 2019. The concern has made no positive headway with Nissan.

Reading the symptoms many of the effected folks described, I suspected a PCV system problem with these particular engines all along.

If you dug deep enough at this point, you should have seen a suspected cause of this problem isn't necessarily on lack of oil changes it's a collapsed PCV valve hose. A Nissan shop who has changed many of these engines for this problem discovered this and posted pics of the suspect hose.

If you feel around the back of the engine, rear valve cover, left side, you will feel where the PCV valve threads into the valve cover. A short section of curved hose runs from the PCV valve to a stub on the plastic upper intake manifold. If the hose feels soft, collapsed or deformed in any way, this is your problem.

Regardless of this potential cause, I've been doing my own oil changes on my 2019 every 3500 miles since I bought it used as an ex-rental in 2019 w/ 25K miles on it. It only had one oil change listed on the carfax at 12K miles when I bought it used. We currently have just shy of 90K miles on it.
Do you think an oil catch can would be helpful for good measure after replacing with better PCV hose?
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Thanks for your thoughts! I do use full synthetic OW20. My gripe is that the dealer did almost all oil changes and maintenance and never once did any of my paperwork indicated excessively dirty or low oil upon arrival. My thought is that the sludge develops over time and the indicators were likely present when in for service. I also called the service department on 2 separate occasions as soon I noticed an issue and I was told if no check engine light is on there is nothing to diagnose. I go to the dealer for service and oil changes because they know these vehicles and their issues inside and out and I trusted them to inform me of any red flags they were seeing.
Sorry, but I don't think you will be able to force any accountability in this matter. That being said, you may NOT need a new engine. It is still running... I would do an engine chemical flush with next synthetic oil change and fix PCV (valve/hose which is very likely an issue) as suggested. Then keep driving it until you can't. I wouldn't trust anything the dealer has to say at this point.
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When your 100 miles till next oil change, put about 8 oz of seafoam in your oil. Drive it 100 miles and do your oil change.
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Do you think an oil catch can would be helpful for good measure after replacing with better PCV hose?
That wouldn't hurt provided the kit uses quality components and you check/drain the can regularly.

I know I've got other threads on this, but I put a CC on the VQ38DD in my 2022 Nissan Frontier and it collects a good 2+ ounces of water/oil/fuel mix every 1000 miles in cold weather.
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Thanks for your response. I just recently read about the PCV hose issue. I know nothing about cars or engines so I’m having a trusted mechanic check it when I go in for my oil change on Mo day.
Here is the PCV thread I was referring to. It's not on this Pathfinder forum, but on a Murano forum. They use the same engine/drivetrain. I would print this out for your mechanic and have this checked ASAP. Sludge in my Engine! Very unhappy Customer
@DupedbyNissan

I haven't had this problem with my 2019, but I have been compiling cases of it and data on it in various threads on this forum since 2019. The concern has made no positive headway with Nissan.

Reading the symptoms many of the effected folks described, I suspected a PCV system problem with these particular engines all along.

If you dug deep enough at this point, you should have seen a suspected cause of this problem isn't necessarily on lack of oil changes it's a collapsed PCV valve hose. A Nissan shop who has changed many of these engines for this problem discovered this and posted pics of the suspect hose.

If you feel around the back of the engine, rear valve cover, left side, you will feel where the PCV valve threads into the valve cover. A short section of curved hose runs from the PCV valve to a stub on the plastic upper intake manifold. If the hose feels soft, collapsed or deformed in any way, this is your problem.

Regardless of this potential cause, I've been doing my own oil changes on my 2019 every 3500 miles since I bought it used as an ex-rental in 2019 w/ 25K miles on it. It only had one oil change listed on the carfax at 12K miles when I bought it used. We currently have just shy of 90K miles on it.
have you changed your PCV valve? I do 2500-3000 mi OCI’s as I am a bit paranoid. I have no oil burning, smoke or any issues to date at 70k miles on my 2019 Platinum. I ordered a PCV valve which arrives later today. I’ll do a thorough inspection of the hoses to ensure they are not collapsing in any way. Any advice?
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have you changed your PCV valve? I do 2500-3000 mi OCI’s as I am a bit paranoid. I have no oil burning, smoke or any issues to date at 70k miles on my 2019 Platinum. I ordered a PCV valve which arrives later today. I’ll do a thorough inspection of the hoses to ensure they are not collapsing in any way. Any advice?
I haven't changed the PCV valve on my 2019 yet. The PCV valve hose feels round throughout w/ no soft spots or deformities that I can tell. Once the weather stays nice, I would like to remove and inspect this hose. I'll probably order an OEM PCV valve at that time and replace that as well.

The only anomaly my 2019 has had the whole time I've owned it is how black it turns it's engine oil in as little as 500-1000 miles into a fresh oil change. This is what sparked my paranoia on this topic ~4yrs ago. I've used nothing but full synthetic 0w20, 5w20 and mostly 5w30 in it. 5w30 makes me feel better.
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I've used nothing but full synthetic 0w20, 5w20 and mostly 5w30 in it. 5w30 makes me feel better.
I don't want to come across as OCD, but I know that when an engine is spec'd to use 0W20, that's what should be used provided the area you live in, drive in, if mentioned in owners manual states as correct for your car.

VQ engines from inception have shown lots of shearing of the oil, more than other DOHC V6 chain driven valvetrain engines of like displacement. So some could argue that a thicker oil with less Viscosity Improvers would be good, but this might backfire because the DI engine is designed for fast flow with a thin oil. I guess a 5W30 would be okay in Dallas in February, but could be too thick in Upstate NY.
I don't want to come across as OCD, but I know that when an engine is spec'd to use 0W20, that's what should be used provided the area you live in, drive in, if mentioned in owners manual states as correct for your car.

VQ engines from inception have shown lots of shearing of the oil, more than other DOHC V6 chain driven valvetrain engines of like displacement. So some could argue that a thicker oil with less Viscosity Improvers would be good, but this might backfire because the DI engine is designed for fast flow with a thin oil. I guess a 5W30 would be okay in Dallas in February, but could be too thick in Upstate NY.
I just don't see any scenario in where synthetic 5W30 could hurt the engine.
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