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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a PDF of the technical service bulletin 13-086 issued Sept 10th for the shudder/judder problem. If you would like a copy, just private message me with an email address of where to send it.

I will try to post a summary of it within the next day or so. Lots of diagrams and information, so a simple cut and paste to the forum will not do it justice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I have a PDF of the technical service bulletin 13-086 issued Sept 10th for the shudder/judder problem. If you would like a copy, just private message me with an email address of where to send it.

I will try to post a summary of it within the next day or so. Lots of diagrams and information, so a simple cut and paste to the forum will not do it justice.
And here is a simplified summary of the TSB (note that these are my words, and not the actual text from the service bulletin):

1) Was the vehicle built before December 2012? If not, go to 2
a. Was NTB 13-002, reprogramming the transmission control module to prevent chain slippage in the CVT completed prior to 1,000 miles? If yes, go to 2
b. Replace the CVT; the chain has ruined the variators.

2) Reprogram the transmission control module. If problem goes away, process is complete.
a. Problem did not go away
b. Record data from vehicle while it is shuddering
c. Go to 3

3) Two problems are diagnosed:
i. If the shudder is a pressure vibration, replace the CVT; interior parts are damaged, CVT is shot
ii. If the shudder is lock up shock, replace the torque converter

It is interesting to note that the TSB covers 4 (four) versions of the torque converter, B – E, which means they have gone through five versions of the torque converter in one model year. Therefore, it appears to be the bad actor here.

There is no mention of a “new design” CVT being used.

There is no mention of a new solenoid pack as part of the solution.

The flow chart the dealer must follow is provided below from the TSB.

It does not address my problem, which is slipping on takeoff, after the torque converter was replaced in July. Maybe the next TSB will cover that....
 

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Thanks, that's really helpful to bring to my next service. Maybe I will get lucky and go straight to replacing the CVT. Mine was built in 10/12, and when I took it in the first time and asked them about reprogramming the CVT back in April they said my car wasn't on the list so they will not reprogram it. When the torque converter replacement first came out, they advised me to wait it out until it's fully resolved. So, I have been waiting all this time and just make a driving habit of avoiding the shudder condition.
 

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Very interesting. My PF has a build date of 10/12 according to the info posted on the driver's side door. I had the reprogramming done after 1000 miles, and have already had the CVT replaced and still have the shudder. I wonder where I fit on the flow chart - it stops at new CVT, which I already have. Another "new" CVT?

If I am reading the flow chart correctly, the data recording is only required for PF's built after 12/12.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Very interesting. My PF has a build date of 10/12 according to the info posted on the driver's side door. I had the reprogramming done after 1000 miles, and have already had the CVT replaced and still have the shudder. I wonder where I fit on the flow chart - it stops at new CVT, which I already have. Another "new" CVT?

If I am reading the flow chart correctly, the data recording is only required for PF's built after 12/12.
I assume you would start in the middle, drive around with a technician and demonstrate the shudder, and then you get a new torque converter or another "new" CVT.

Data recording would apply to a Pathfinder built before the end of the year that did not already have the CVT replaced (unless like your case, the 2nd one is shuddering, like yours......)
 

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The flow chart is very clear when to replace the TC. However, where can I see the relevant stamping, ie where to look for the 25A, B C, D or E?
GREAT info, thanks a lot!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The flow chart is very clear when to replace the TC. However, where can I see the relevant stamping, ie where to look for the 25A, B C, D or E?
GREAT info, thanks a lot!
You can't, it is on the torque converter, which is inside the transmission. The part number is stored by Nissan in a database, so your service advisor would have to tell you. If it was replaced in July like mine, it was the "D" version, which still could be replaced based on the serial number. If it has not been replaced, I assume you would get the latest "E" version.
 

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Very interesting. My PF has a build date of 10/12 according to the info posted on the driver's side door. I had the reprogramming done after 1000 miles, and have already had the CVT replaced and still have the shudder. I wonder where I fit on the flow chart - it stops at new CVT, which I already have. Another "new" CVT?

If I am reading the flow chart correctly, the data recording is only required for PF's built after 12/12.
Hi, my build date is Dec 2012.
Would that be considered before or after 12/12?
 

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Hi, my build date is Dec 2012.
Would that be considered before or after 12/12?
The flow chart says BEFORE December 2012, so I would think your PF would fall into the second category - build dates after 12/12.

Does anyone have any ideas why the flowchart is broken into before and after the 12/12 build? What changed with the PF's that were built after 12/12?
 

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I wondered that too. Did Nissan make a switch on the torque converter. Knowing there was a problem. Why so many variants of one part in the span of 1 year?
I had mine checked and they said there was no recall or TSB for my VIN. But when the tech took it out for a test drive it shuddered. They went ahead and placed an order for a new torque converter. It's on back order (that was 3 weeks ago). I don't think they did any reprogramming. I wll call them Monday with the new TSB details to see where I fall in the flowchart!
 

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What is the difference between "Pressure Vibration" and "Lock Up Shock"?
I have had the D suffix converter replacement. It has shuddered twice since the repair the same way it did before. Today, for the first time, it seemed to slip or hesitate when I tried to turn left at a light. Just wondered what the difference was between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Did Nissan make a switch on the torque converter. Knowing there was a problem. Why so many variants of one part in the span of 1 year?

I had mine checked and they said there was no recall or TSB for my VIN.
Yes, the fact that they are on version 5 (A = 1, B = 2, C = 3, D = 4, and E = 5) in less than one model year means they had either quality or design issues with the torque converter.

The shudder/judder does not fall under a recall (yet). And there are no set values of VIN that apply to the Pathfinder or Altima. You just have to demonstrate the shudder like you did and then you get a new torque converter or "new" CVT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
What is the difference between "Pressure Vibration" and "Lock Up Shock"?
I have had the D suffix converter replacement. It has shuddered twice since the repair the same way it did before. Today, for the first time, it seemed to slip or hesitate when I tried to turn left at a light. Just wondered what the difference was between the two.
It appears that when they are measuring "pressure vibration" that a part or section of the CVT hydraulic circuit has been physically damaged, and it is causing the lock up function of the torque converter to not work properly. This is not just the solenoid pack, because that is relatively easy and cheap to fix, so something within the CVT is damaged and can not be repaired.

If it is not the hydraulic circuit, then they assume the torque converter is bad, and replace it.

Like you, I also have the "D" torque converter put in July and now it slips more on takeoff than it does the shudder. The shudder has been significantly reduced, in fact, have not noticed it in a couple of weeks now.
 

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And here is a simplified summary of the TSB (note that these are my words, and not the actual text from the service bulletin):

1) Was the vehicle built before December 2012? If not, go to 2
a. Was NTB 13-002, reprogramming the transmission control module to prevent chain slippage in the CVT completed prior to 1,000 miles? If yes, go to 2
b. Replace the CVT; the chain has ruined the variators.

2) Reprogram the transmission control module. If problem goes away, process is complete.
a. Problem did not go away
b. Record data from vehicle while it is shuddering
c. Go to 3

3) Two problems are diagnosed:
i. If the shudder is a pressure vibration, replace the CVT; interior parts are damaged, CVT is shot
ii. If the shudder is lock up shock, replace the torque converter

It is interesting to note that the TSB covers 4 (four) versions of the torque converter, B – E, which means they have gone through five versions of the torque converter in one model year. Therefore, it appears to be the bad actor here.

There is no mention of a “new design” CVT being used.

There is no mention of a new solenoid pack as part of the solution.

The flow chart the dealer must follow is provided below from the TSB.

It does not address my problem, which is slipping on takeoff, after the torque converter was replaced in July. Maybe the next TSB will cover that....

Interesting. Mine was one of the first in the city so it was definitely pre Dec 2012. I drive about 3k miles per month. It falls under number one. I have complained several times and had it in but they did not do anything. By the time the recall came through, I, of course, had well over 1,000 miles. It sounds as if the reprogram did nothing - it actually made it shudder more. Finally, they are replacing the whole CVT this month. I am optimistic that it will be ok (I hope). Just wish they would have done it earlier.
 

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My PF has a build date of 10/12 according to the info posted on the driver's side door...
I don't have the build date listed there on mine. Where else might I find this information?
 
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