Nissan Pathfinder Forum banner

CVT Shudder / Judder related TSBs

89K views 98 replies 39 participants last post by  Steve79 
#1 ·
By popular demand, attached to this post you will find the TSBs pertaining to the so-called "shudder" or "judder" problem experienced on 2013-2014 Pathfinders. If any additional TSBs are posted, I'll be sure to update them here.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: PFflyer
#4 ·
Which is correct 18mph or 5 mph?

I am in Calgary so sometimes I dont know if its due to Shudder or ice on the road.

I need to find a clean road to simulate this.

So in order to simulate this i need to place my car at around 8 kph to 56 kph plus 10% throttle. Correct ???

Do i need to maintain a constant speed or not ???

Can someone please enumerate the Method to simulate this?

My dealership always ask me to bring my car and with the Technician sitting beside me, they want me to simulate it. So many times i complain about this shudder and the same reply i got "Please simulate it".... and i am having a hard time to replicate it.

thank you PF talk member.
 
#5 ·
You touched on exactly why the Judder is such a difficult problem - you can't generally simulate it at will. However, your dealer should have a TSB that tells them exactly what to do, and also a troubleshooting flowchart. You shouldn't have to do anything other than to tell them that you're having the problem.

If they are putting the onus on you, then it's time to find a different dealer (and make it clear to them that you're taking your business elsewhere).

Anyway, the judder typically happens between 5-30MPH. Mine occurred far more often when slowly accelerating from a dead stop, and often when making a left turn. If you're inclined to try to demonstrate it for them, then that's what you should use in the hopes of simulating it.

Otherwise, tell them to go read NTB13-086, dated September of 2013. That should tell them everything they need to know about the judder.
 
#8 ·
They've replaced the torque converter, but the jury is still out on whether it permanently fixed the issue, I can say that I haven't experienced it in about 5000 miles now, though it did happen right after they did it.
 
#7 ·
We had to prove our shudder to the Nissan specialist on our final repair attempt appointment. Before the appointment, we tried to figure out what triggered the shudder in our PF so we would be prepared. We drove our PF for hours in a particularly hilly neighborhood close to our house. We knew that our PF shuddered between 18 and 38 MPH, liked to shudder on left hand turns, in stop and go traffic, and from full stops accelerating up inclines. So, we did all of the above, ALOT. We never could make our PF shudder on demand, but we got where we could tell when our PF was about to shudder, and what conditions to drive it in to increase the odds of a shudder.

I would tell you to do the same - it will significantly increase your odds of making your PF shudder when you need it to for the dealership. Good luck to you, I know it is extremely frustrating.
 
#9 ·
Hey Noypi I am in Calgary too,
I have a 2014 pf SL, they replace my complete CVT and I have at least 5000 km since no shudder... or at least we haven't feel it as before... Which dealer are you dealing with?, my first did the reprogramming, and after I proved the shuddering they replace my cvt. So reading your comments it looks like my dealer is not as bad as I thought....
 
#10 ·
I am dealing with Fish Creek.

How did you able to replicate Shudder ?

They did reprogramming long time ago on my PF 2013 SL model.

My question to fellow PF talk member is,

1. How come a 2014 still experience shudder?

2. Nissan Pathfinder is a mass production vehicle, so if your model is produced (e.g. on December 2012) and let say you were able to prove that you are experiencing shudder and Nissan approve to replace your CVT/ Transmission. Isn't it all the PF produced on the same day/month will have the same problem? How can your CVT/TRANSMISSION parts will be different from my CVT if we have the same production date and time?

3. Why not Nissan make a general recall if my 2nd question make sense?

Sorry to say this but this car is not that cheap and for Nissan not to do anything will make everyone of us who own PF 2013 and 2014 will all go down the drain.

Do my questions make sense and comments ??? :)
 
#11 ·
Many of us want to know why there hasn't been a recall too! I guess because Nissan doesn't have answers yet, or don't have a permanent fix. You can't have a mass recall unless you're prepared to offer a repair.

As to date of manufacture, we only know month and year, at least in the U.S., so you can't use the argument that another vehicle was made at the same time, so needs the same fix.
 
#12 ·
Hi Jay, you are right only month and year. But how many car they produce in a day and in a month. My point is every parts of the vehicle will be the same for a month produce or maybe not more than a 2 months production. Once you run the production plant your supply must be ready and supplies doesnt mean to last only for a day work. Its not a good planning if your supplies last for one day production only. And normally each parts are produce also by batch so they must be the same quality.

So i still believe, if they come out from the same production month/year and with the amount of people complaining about shudder its not a simple defective one piece of CVT from a batch of supplies of CVT parts.
 
#14 ·
Very early on, when I was a new member of this forum and first became aware of the jutter issue, I had a theory that the problem might be confined to particular dates of manufacture and was willing to compile a database with a mod's or admin's assistance of the members that had issues.

Since then, there has been an explosion of new members and I think it would be very difficult to cull this information from member's posts unless we started all over again with a new poll. Plus, we even have had members get reprograms or even new transmissions with varying degrees of success, so that should be factored in also.

As long as there were some sort of controls in place to make it a valid survey, I think it would be valuable information for Nissan to know. Perhaps it IS a quality control or inventory sourcing issue as Noipi_Edmund has raised. Who knows?
 
#15 ·
About 5 days after we took possession of our then brand new 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan ES AWD, a call comes in from the dealer saying not to drive it and that a tow truck will be there the next day for a "recall". Long story short - turns out a very small batch of bolts were used on a few dozen of the zillions of vans they made were not to spec. Only for a very specific time period though. Bolt failure could have caused transmission failure. FOTM is that stuff slips through in sometimes small quantities.

Probably not the case here though... this seems to suggest a systemic issue. But unless you have the data....
 
#16 ·
One important thing to note is that we don't all agree on what "judder" or "shudder" is... in fact, we can't even agree on a uniform term to describe the phenomenon.

That said, if we can't agree as a forum - just a small subset of the overall owner population - imagine how disparate the problem might be amongst all 2013-2014 Pathfinders. Edmund, your questions/suppositions all assume that the "judder" is a specific problem. I contend that there are a number of different problems that all could be described as "judder" - and that some of them may just be a characteristic of the drivetrain - or may be an issue where the owner just isn't used to the way the CVT works.

So, trying to isolate the problem and make assumptions about where the failure was in manufacturing or quality control is just an exercise in futility. It's also why Nissan seems to have had a hard time isolating and correcting it to the satisfaction of everyone.

Finally, if you read the 13-086 TSB, you can see that there is a flowchart which attempts to classify the specific problem before any repair can be attempted.

In short, the "judder" is a general term that is being used to describe many different problems, likely caused by different components. There is not, nor will there ever be, a "one size fits all" solution - and this likely will go on for several different model years until every kink is worked out.
 
#21 ·
I contend that there are a number of different problems that all could be described as "judder" - and that some of them may just be a characteristic of the drivetrain - or may be an issue where the owner just isn't used to the way the CVT works.
And unfortunately, Nissan is either hiding behind this ambiguity, as if every complaint is just some wackadoo that doesn't know what a CVT is. Just hope that they don't actually believe the garbage they are spewing in response to the complaints.

It's sort of like my fuel economy issue though... when I post that my PF is getting 2-3 mpg below the EPA ratings (no cargo or passengers, not using AC, getting flipped off going 5 under the speed limit, with my tires properly inflated and fresh oil and filters), other users are quick to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Until the "judder" gets to point that it is throwing a code or producing clearly visible symptoms of malfunction, it is just too easy for service managers to attribute mild, intermittent quirks to driver perception or even driver error. And if the front lines techs don't believe there's an issue, it certainly isn't being communicated up the ranks in a way that begs immediate attention.

Of course, at some point they are going to take notice of what has to be a well above average rate of buybacks and arbitration settlements. But with a model that continues to sell well, even despite the growing negative publicity, it is really the owners whose resale value is plummeting (and thus total cost of ownership is skyrocketing) that are really going to feel the pain.

Hopefully we won't be seen as the Pinto owners of a new generation in a few years!
 
#18 ·
Absolutely. They need to publicly acknowledge the problem and then put an extended drivetrain warranty on every vehicle that uses this design. This would do much to inspire consumer confidence and save the resale value of these vehicles.
 
#26 ·
The lemon law is in the US, and it helps consumers get out of defective vehicles that meet certain requirements under the laws of each state. In GA, I could file the lemon law after my PF had been in the shop 3 times for the same defect (CVT shuddering). I then had to give Nissan one more final repair attempt, which I did, and they could not fix my PF in the required number of days under the law (14), so they had to repurchase my PF. I could also have filed for repurchase after my PF was in the shop for 30 days - mine ended up around 31 or 32 days in 11 months of ownership before it was repurchased.
 
#28 ·
2013 SL Premium Shutter 25-35 MPH

I'm currently sitting in the service area with my Pathfinder. Thank you for posting the TSBs.
My questions is I have had this Pathfinder for a year, 21K miles on it. How hard do you push for a new CVT, it sounds like the reprogramming isn't the fix I want, but I'm not sure after reading posts and the TSBs

Thanks
 
#29 ·
I'm currently sitting in the service area with my Pathfinder. Thank you for posting the TSBs.
My questions is I have had this Pathfinder for a year, 21K miles on it. How hard do you push for a new CVT, it sounds like the reprogramming isn't the fix I want, but I'm not sure after reading posts and the TSBs

Thanks
The longer TSB is basically a flowchart that leads the dealer from initial diagnosis to CVT replacement. There are a number of stops along the way. You pretty much have to let them allow the troubleshooting to run its course.
 
#34 ·
I have an appointment to take my 2014 PF in again (2nd time) to look at the transmission.

Last time they said if there are more issues they will replace the transmission, this would be good because it feels like a shoebox full of rocks.
 
#36 ·
The dealer has tried over and over again to tell me my Nissan is "behaving normally". It's not. I know Nissans and I know cars. This is not normal.

The dealers need to change the way they deal with their customers. If they had just said "This is a tricky issue and we're trying to figure it out," I would have a lot more patience.

Instead, I've wasted a ton of time trying to create reproducible steps for them and having them blame everything from the way I drive, to fuel economy, to my snow tires.

I'm tired of being treated this way. Has anyone contacted a lawyer?
 
#37 ·
Like with most cars, there are good dealers, mediocre dealers and bad dealers. It sounds like yours has their head in the sand or up their arse, I'm not sure which. :| Do you have another dealer in your area you can take it to?
 
#38 ·
I see new TSBs went up, does anyone have the full TSBs?

Subject: SB 2013-2014 Pathfinder; DTC P17F1 and/or P17F0 Present
Summary of NTB15015: YOU CONFIRM: If either of these DTC’s are present: * P17F1 (CVT_JUDDER (C/U INSPECTION)) * P17F0 (CVT_JUDDER (T/M INSPECTION)) If either P17F1 or P17F0 are not present, this bulletin does not apply. ACTIONS: 1. Perform SERVICE PROCEDURE starting on page 3. IMPORTANT: CONSULT-III plus (C-III) plus must be at least version 45.31 to perform this CVT INSPECTION test. Please see this bulletin for further details.

Subject: SB 2013-2014 Pathfinder; Enhanced Diagnostic Logic for P17F1 and P17F0
Summary of NTB15014: SERVICE INFORMATION: A new diagnostic logic has been established to enhance the diagnostic process by storing diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) on applied vehicles. These new DTC’s are: * P17F1 (CVT_JUDDER (C/U INSPECTION)) * P17F0 (CVT_JUDDER(T/M INSPECTION)) Please see this bulletin for further details.

Subject: SB Nissan; Procedure to Clean CVT Transmission Fluid Cooler
Summary of NTB15013: IMPORTANT: Metal debris and friction material may become trapped in the radiator, cooling hoses, bypass valve or external CVT fluid cooler. This debris can contaminate the newly serviced transmission, control valve or torque converter. In severe cases this debris can block or restrict flow and may cause damage to the newly serviced CVT. SERVICE INFORMATION When a CVT, control valve or torque converter replacement is necessary for one of the applied vehicles, the CVT transmission fluid coolers (radiator based fluid cooler and external auxiliary cooler if present) must be flushed. Please see this bulletin for further details.
 
#41 ·
Was considering a 2015 pf. This forum is concerning me and giving me cause for reconsideration. Are the 2015s experiencing this judder problem? When the cvt is replaced on an affected vehicle does the problem simply return or is the issue truly fixed? I leaning towards cancelling my appointment Monday afternoon with the salesman.
 
#42 ·
The replacement CVT in my wife's Pathfinder has 13k+ miles and 15 months on it without a single issue. However, I've been on this Forum long enough to not get too complacent and archive my warranty paperwork before the 5/60 Powertrain is up. My Hybrid has been perfect for the first 7 months and 7k+ miles of ownership, but that's certainly way too few data points to safely say it won't develop any issues.

The basic underlying fact is this...if you drive a hard bargain and get a great deal, your buying a car that has few comparably equipped rivals at its price point. The truth is though, with the exception of the one poster who claimed to drive an ungodly amount of highway miles for work, and said they were on their 3rd or 4th transmission, no one here to my knowledge has eclipsed the 40k+ mileage mark without issue (or for that matter, just eclipsed 40k miles). I'm confident somebody will, someday, and then someone else, and then someone else, and perhaps folks will feel better about buying a Pathfinder. Otherwise, it's a vehicle that's in it's third model year, with a lot of problems behind it, and based on that, it's safe to assume there are still a few ahead.
 
#43 ·
I really like the look, price etc of the 2015 pf. The SL with tech package is what I'm looking for. The size of the vehicle is perfect for my family of 5. It was by far my favorite to test drive.

But the cvt is a crap shoot.

It seems some never have the shudder problem, while others have non stop problems despite the fix. I have not seen a lot of complaints from people online for the 2015 "redesign" of the cvt. I think I will just continue to watch and see what happens as the year progresses. I think I'll maintain my advantage right, take some more time and wait.

****, that mean I'll have to keep driving my caravan.
 
#44 ·
But the cvt is a crap shoot.
My words exactly whenever asked the same questions you posed.

I think I will just continue to watch and see what happens as the year progresses. I think I'll maintain my advantage right, take some more time and wait.
If you have that luxury, I think that's a smart move.
****, that mean I'll have to keep driving my caravan.
LOL! Been there, done that (twice!) :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top